First in the Family

Hello and welcome back to admission granted. This is a podcast on how to be successful in applying to medical and graduate programs. And today, we're going to talk about being the first in the family. But first, I'll introduce myself. My name is Natalie Nunez. I am one of your co-hosts. My name is Brittany. My name is Christina. All right. So, before we dive into today's topic, I would love to know how Your Summers went like, what is this summer? Yeah. How does it feel to be back? Yeah, I mean I can go ahead because a Ph.D program. Your Summers Don't Stop In Summer. I'm just in love, doing research spending maybe a week. A few weekends like, exploring New York State hanging out with my fiance, Our family and our friends, probably attending a few weddings, right? Because everyone's in that mode of getting married and having babies. But Christina, what about you? What did you do this summer? Yeah. So the way it works for us when you're in medical school, at least here at Upstate, you get one summer off in between your first and second year that you can pretty much use to do whatever you want. Some people do choose to do certain programs. Some people do research, some people go home and do research at their home institution quote. Unquote. I know people who just did not do anything and just took the summer off. So, it's pretty much the world is your oyster in that way. So what I did is I stayed in Syracuse because I'm from, I'm from Syracuse originally, I was a teaching assistant for the upstate accelerated Scholars Program. If anyone here is listening and is interested in that program, definitely go online to up State's website. It's a great program. It's basically a BS 2 MD track where Upstate has partnered with various colleges. And the country. So I was a teaching assistant for that program so that got me some mentorship experience. And I also did a clinical fellowship at the hospital with the psychiatric team. So I went in my work with doctors, I worked with psychologists there, the resident, the medical students on the team. I saw patients, I wrote notes, I did all sorts of stuff there, and I also took time to relax. I spent a lot of time with friends and a lot of day trips all around New York, went to Ithaca In been there in a long time, which was great. And yeah. How about you Natalie nice. I took advantage of our summer. I traveled a bit actually traveled by myself for the first time which was an amazing experience. I spent a lot of quality time with my family and friends and I did do a little bit of research. I worked on a review paper with some friends from another medical school. So I got a little bit of work done but overall it was very relaxing and I came back feeling so refreshed and ready to like start a Mist who. Yeah, I'm very grateful for good. That's ready to try. Raffle this summer. I need to know. Yeah, I went to Munich Germany to visit. That's awesome. I highly recommend one of my high school friends lives there. So I took her up on the chance to visit and then I went to Barcelona. Also. And that was like, my time alone, which was great. Yeah. It's always some now we'll transition into like, what we're going to talk about today, which is being the first in the family pursuing, a medical degree or PhD. So let's start by sharing what our family does and how it might have like influenced us to pursue what Doing Britney. Do you want to start? Yeah, of course. So my mother is a public health program nurse for the central region of New York State's Department of Health. And from what I understand is that my mom just kind of goes to different Health Department's around Central New York evaluates their programs and helps them improve if necessary. And I believe I've talked about this before but my father is a physics teacher here in Syracuse at a high school called Westchester High School and I think science just has always Has been in my house, either doing Spearman's with my dad or watching it on TV and discussing it but my mom and dad both fostered, a science medical education. In fact, my mom actually got me into viruses which is what I study but because she is in the public health field that were able to look at viruses bacteria, heavy metals overall education in public health and how to keep you and your family. Healthy. So I knew that I loved science and public health. So naturally I kind of just ended up in a field that does both, are you Christina? Yeah. So I'm like Brittany, I didn't have anyone. In my family who was, in the medical field, I had one of my mom's friends was a nurse when I was growing up, but that's pretty much it. I actually was the first person in my family to go to college. So I was a freshman college student as well. My mom is a hairdresser. And I think, for me the way that That influence me was she always instilled in me the concept of financial Independence that no matter where life took me or where I ended up or what my situation was that I should always be able to support myself even if I choose even if the other day I chose not to work and to stay at home and take care of a family that I would always have that option at my disposal to be able to support myself. Obviously, I did not choose to stay at home and take care of a family, that's not the choice that I made, but I think that concept of Independence, really helped shape me into the person that I am. And also, I think one thing that I kind of experienced being the first person in my family to go into medicine, was just the the necessity for me to advocate for myself, you know, a lot of people in our class and I'm sure Natalie will speak to this, as well have family members or parents or grandparents, are, you know, generations of doctors and or people in the medical field and their Lee which is great. I think that that speaks to how awesome the field is and how much people love the career and love the lifestyle, which I think is awesome. But you know, for me, I didn't have a parent or a grandparent who could call up their med school roommate and be like, hey, can my grand daughter? Christina Shadow. You like, I had to do that all myself. So, for anyone who's listening? I think number one, take advantage of your school's career center. I had a great career center at my high school and I can, And of go into later on in this episode, how I used that to my disposal on how I form connections there. But, you know, it can be as simple as just having a meeting with your school guidance, counselor for 20 minutes and being like, this is what I want to do. Do you know, of any programs that I might be interested in? I think advocating for yourself is extremely important because, you know, when you're in high school, you have people who are responsible for helping you along and guiding you, you know, you have guidance counselors at your school. So that's But from there on out, it's you, you have, you have to form those opportunities and kind of pave your way. And it's, you know, if you really take advantage of those opportunities so things will come your way, but how about you Natalie? Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that a lot of other students have people in their families or in their social networks family, friends, things like that, who have been able to help them because I really do think that we're in the minority here. And I just realized that which actually surprised me a little bit, but to give you a little bit of mine. Background, my mom's a high school, biology teacher. She actually came to United States when she was 9 years old, and she finished College when I was 13 years old. So, I saw her go from, like, being a restaurant server. Like, I was to becoming a biology teacher and she had to get a masters degree and, you know, pursue other higher education. But since I was little, she really fostered in me like the inherent reward of learning. They just always got excited about, like, new developments in science. And it's always Discussion because, you know, good grades are nice, but it feels good to understand how things work and to my these connections, I think we can all agree on that and her love of science. Absolutely ripped off on me. It's just like instinctual to us so grateful for that. She definitely influenced me to pursue a scientific career. And my dad, he's always on small businesses. He was born in the States but he grew up in the Dominican Republic and came back and he was in high school. So yeah. So he also I kind of had to start from the bottom himself, and he was very successful in his various different Sure. Is one thing that he's always instilled in me and he's always been interested in is self-improvement and he's always listen to like motivational speakers and things like that. Yes, it since I was little I've always heard these things about your mindset and how important that is to succeeding and overcoming obstacles and things like that. And I think that I really got my work ethic from him that my son so cool. I think that's so true. What you said about your mindset. I think that the way that you talk to yourself everyday really matters. Yeah. And I talked about that with my friends a lot. So that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, I feel very grateful for that. And so we're all doing things that are very different from what our families did. I wonder how are your family has reacted? When you told him that you were pursuing what you're doing when you start? Christina sure. Yeah I'll start this time. So we'll first and foremost, I think you know it's important to say my family's always been supportive of me, they're always my number one cheerleaders at this point. At this stage, the game now that I am two years at a school in the medical school, they don't really understand what I do. What it It entails to go to medical school. They just kind of, you know, I'll be talking about a test, I'll be like, Oh, I'm stressed, I eat. I'm afraid that I'm not going to do well or whatever and they'll be like, oh, you're the smartest person. It's fine. It's fine. I'm like, I don't know about that, but my family, really, the bottom line has done for me. I mean, I've done so many things for me. I would not be where I am today without them, for sure, but I think for me, School and doing all this fun stuff is not because I was the best at math or the kid at the science. Fair, who always won the ribbons and whatever. Like that was not me. I think I've gotten this far because they taught me these basic principles about how to be successful in life that I've just carried me through. I remember I got my first job when I was in high school. I was like 15 or 16 and I worked as retail job and my mom sat me down, and she was just telling me that no matter what You're doing no matter what your job is, you should always do it to the best of your ability. Like, no job is quote unquote. You know, you're never going to be overqualified for any job. There's always an opportunity to learn. There's always an opportunity to better yourself and to learn something. And so, yeah, I think that that's definitely how my families impacted me for sure. How about you guys? Yeah. So when I told my family, I was pursuing medicine, they were like ecstatic, you know, like they were definitely relieved also because I am a non-traditional. And as I mentioned before, so I found my way later in life. Well, you know, later than most people that aren't doing this. So, they were, you know, very relieved, and really proud of me and really supportive, which I'm very grateful for. And, of course, you know, there are some people who don't understand anything, that's part of being the first in the family is, is kind of Alone in that sense, like not having anyone around you and your immediate circles that can relate definitely have people that have asked me like, oh, why don't you try nursing or something else? Like me, are you going to be in school for so long and all great careers, you know, that they've recommended. But this is what I chose and you know, I thought a lot about it and yeah, they're they're really supportive and I think they're, you know, the further I get along in this path. The more supportive they are and understanding and yeah, they see you. You know, getting closer to your end. Exactly.

Have you ever gone the question of like, oh, aren't you worried? You're not going to have time with your family or why don't you pursue, you know, being a PA or being an MP or something like that. So maybe you'll have quote, unquote, more time with your family, have you ever gotten a question before all the time all the time. So the way I think about it is like, yes, I'm going through four years of school and potentially like, Like up to nine years of residency, depending on what I do. But this is like an investment for my future. I think that I'll have more freedom to the line. If I invest now, unless I'm really happy like I love what I do. Like, you know, I feel like I was like, need for this career in a sense. Yeah, yeah. I just, I just remind myself of that and, you know, it's definitely tough to answer those questions. What about you guys? I definitely have. Yeah, yeah, I definitely get those questions to especially since I guess this actually transitions very well until my family reacted like so I'm not new to higher education, like that secondary diploma after your bachelor's because my dad had to go to graduate school for his master's and my mom was pursuing a master's. So, I always knew that like, I wanted to, you know, kind of be like, damn, I wanted to see what the next step in my career was. And, like, why not try going to graduate school. My parents are both very impressed and they always push me to get a higher degree Beyond bachelors. As they knew that if I did that, I would set myself up for so many more opportunities. And like you said, I would have so much more freedom later in life than right now. But my fiance's family did not react the same way. Actually, when they found out that I was pursuing a PhD. So for 56 years of graduate school, they were kind of confused as to why I didn't want to settle down and start a family. Because that's what They did that's what their children did and I believe, I'm like the first one in my family and in his family to go to graduate school for a PhD, not necessarily just like a masters but it took some time for them to understand and for me to explain to them like how I'm doing this for the betterment of me and like what I want to do and like the long run but also its setting up what I feel my family for Success. Like, you know, my Future children showing them like I'm able to get through this career. And these are the opportunities that I had and this is then set you up for success as well. So you can look up to someone who's been to graduate school as their PHD or like, you guys are empty and you're able to Mentor them. Yeah. And I totally, I love how you guys are kind of painting this. Like, it's a calling more so than it's just a job. Yeah, I totally, I totally agree with that. That totally tracks with me, but I think from now on after Actually, after this podcast, Someone asked me like, you know, why did you not choose to become a PA and it's not because, you know, those people making enormous sacrifices well and, you know, that's, you know, that's not to minimize their sacrifices and their hard work that they do. But I just think my calling is not to be either one of those things. My car is to be a physician so it's as simple as that. Yeah, there's something bigger out there that you wanted to try. So sure, enough, I mean, at least that's my motto, right? You gotta try. It once for sure. So along the same vein, how did you guys find out about your careers? Like what you're pursuing? I can start. Yeah, definitely, I'll just say it when I was little, I wanted to be a dermatologist. I didn't know really fascinated with skin and I was like, always, like trying to get my family facials, only chasing them down because I had no idea what that entailed. Like, I didn't realize it was like so many years of school and whatever it's times like a cool thing to do, but it was later in life when I actually lived on my own. I own and found some stability on my own that I realized I wanted to pursue medicine and it was really working with kids with special needs and like just seeing different pathologies and volunteering with doctors where I was able to see this amazing career and recognize that there is a need for people like me in this field. So it's just so interesting to me medicine because it's really a beautiful marriage of like science and Humanities. Like I love working with people and I get to like, solve complex So this is like my dream job honestly because I just feel like I can do everything I want to do. I get to work with people, I get to learn, I get to do cool things. And yeah, you're very passionate about. I do feel like you said Christina it was a calling that found me. So I do feel very lucky and how about you guys? How did you learn about this career? Yeah, I think for me, kind of just to Echo what you said, I wouldn't say that one of them fell in my lap. I think it all started when I was in high school and I was Kind of toying around with the idea of doing a bunch of different things. And I booked a meeting with my career advisor. Like everyone in my, my grade was assigned one and she told me about this program through crowds Hospital, which is actually right next door to help say I pass it every day. Where are you? Could go in and every month, there was a different doctor in a different area of medicine who would talk to you. And I've kind of talked about this before on this podcast. I'm not going to go too in depth with the story, but after that, I found myself. Really liking biology and in high school. And it was, I was in this honors biology class and it was notoriously this really hard class. Everybody talked about it. Everybody was afraid of it because it was so it was tough and very arduous. But I remember doing well in that class, even though it was really difficult and I really liked that, feeling that I could do something that was hard that no one else that I knew had done like that. Was that really tracked with me? Yeah. And so, Yeah, I think I just from Men on, I took an anatomy and physiology class in high school that a local high school was offering over the summer. I talked to doctors like whenever a doctor would come in and present to our school or whatever. What have you, I would always stay after and talk to them. And really try to get my finger on the pulse of what their job was like and what they were saying and I just kind of one thing led to another and I just couldn't imagine myself ever doing anything else. And to this day, I I could not imagine myself doing anything else. The nothing is better than this for me. So, how about you Brittany? I mean, we all have faculty, right? And undergraduate, everyone has a doctor for other name, either. Either it's a PhD or an MD. And so I knew of PhD school and my friends at the time where you're older than me, they had all applied and got in to phc school so I was like, yeah, why not? Like I was kind of more naive about it. I talked to some faculty and they were like you, you know, this like this is really, this can be really grueling and I was like, oh, I'll see what happens. And so when I got in and then, you know, first year comes second year, comes I go, I can do one more year. Oh, I can always Master off. I don't like this. Like I can do one more year and, you know, here I am five years later. Like, I can graduate in six months. Oh my God, like it. So, it's really cool and it's really cool. Yeah, I just I like what I do I do. Think I'd imagine it any other way. That's awesome. Great. Yeah I think you have to like love a challenge to do what we're doing. Yes. Yeah you have to love the one thing I didn't realize before I got here you really truly have to love learning. You learn a new study as a church or maybe you're going to do well, great, but you're not going to enjoy like you have to really be fascinated by things to do this and go of it. Yes, I'm sure. Yeah, hard. Not to be fascinated by like the human body has and just like, yeah, all this stuff. There's so many different Avenues too. Pursuing this career was like, here's yeah, I think that's a great segue into our next topic, which is our mentors like where did we find them who they are, why they're so important and what we look for in them because it's absolutely important especially as people who may not have had other people doing what we want to do in our upbringing, you know, we definitely have to seek mentors, I think so. Do you want to get into that right now? I can definitely start when I looked for a mentor. It was more. Someone who was either on the same. Track as me or was able to listen to me. I think that is, you know, something that was very important to me was that they were able to take the time. Listen to me, hear my story and the reason why I'm making certain decisions, but also able to provide feedback, especially if I say, hey, I'm going to go do this. I think this is the path. I want to choose and they say, well, I tried this, like, in, this is my experience, maybe this will help you make a decision about like choosing, you know. This sort of internship or whatnot. I think that definitely helped me when I asked and talked to my mentors and my mentors weren't just professors and undergraduate. It was also my friends who were a year older than me? I think they definitely helped. Like, she ate me to who I am today. Just asking for their feedback. And I also really liked our residency director because that was an aura in undergrad. And she gave me so much, like life feedback because she chose, you know, it wasn't It wasn't Public Health but she still was older than me and able to provide like mentorship. And I guess not to beat this word, you know, but feedback she gave me a lot of life feedback which I really appreciated. What about you? Christina were your mentors? Yeah, so kind of similar. I really liked what you said Brittany about older students. I think that that is the silent mentor of Med students that I don't think you hear a lot about. But definitely, I think for anyone who's listening to this right now, Now, who might be in high school and undergrad, one place that I used to go to meet older students, who ended up to be. My mentors, was our school with Binghamton University would put on pre-health events. So, they would have speakers, or they would have, like, round tables that you can go and, like, talk to Physicians alumni and all that stuff. And there would be older students there. And I remember, I would lean over to them in the audience and be like, hi, you don't know me, but my name is Christina. I'm a freshman. And that from there like just from talking to them and listening and I would say, hey do you mind if I send you an e-mail or hey you know, maybe the next time I saw them on campus I wave and just little things like that. I think putting yourself in the position to meet people. I think it's very very important and if you're you know, you're more introverted, you're more shy. It's okay. But I think definitely, you know, being able to reach out and talk to people and network is a skill that takes time to learn by. It's important and I would also say, aye Two of my biggest mentors. Were the pre-health director at my school? And my undergrad always was so helpful to me and I definitely wanted to see me succeed and always took the extra time to meet with me if I had questions and that was great. But another mentor of mine was my organic chemistry. Professor in college. Still probably the best Professor I've ever had. This is another lesson in, why you should advocate for yourself because the way that I got to know her Was, she would have these office hours throughout the week and one of her office hours was at like, 8:00 or 8:30 in the morning. So I would get up and I would go. And sometimes I would be the only person who went because it was so early, and everyone's in college and doesn't get up till later usually, but I got out of bed and I would, I would go. And for the times that I would be the only student there, or maybe one of the few students, she would still take the time to teach me, even if it was one-on-one. So literally, if there were different times, I swear she was literally teach me organic chemistry one-on-one and from there I just really respect her teaching style. I think she was an awesome person and I definitely have way more mentors than that than when I said if you're a mentor of mine is listening to this. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. And thank you. I think it's also important to say that not everyone that I've encountered on the way has been a mentor. Not everyone has rooted for me. Not everyone has told me that I'm the smartest person, you know you There's definitely been the opposite and To that I say you know, sometimes it's just a matter of finding the right mentor and once you find one try and be that for someone else as well when you get to the position where you can definitely pay it forward. Totally and I like that you mentioned. It's like, it's a kind of like a two-way relationship. You know, as a mentee you have to put in effort as well. I was really lucky. I found both of my mentors by chance and all I. Yeah. I'll talk about this woman who really was just so inspirational to me. I I went to like a pre-med event thrown by us anime, which is like a pre-med Organization for minority students. So, I went to this event and I'm flipping through the program and I See This Woman's face. She was one of the speakers and I recognized her immediately. She happened to be the sister of this woman that I was working with at the time being. Yeah. It was just like very, I don't know. It was very interesting how that happened, so I took a picture and I sent it to my friend was like is this her sister? And she said, yeah, totally like reach out to her. I wasn't able to I hear her speak because I had to leave early for work, but I did reach out to her and she was so receptive and so welcoming and warm and she's a double board certified physician. She does ENT and plastic surgery just seeing a woman being able to do that was just really inspiring to me. I was able to really just see like what a career in medicine could look like and you really can't have it all and we're going to get into work life balance later because, you know, there's Different opinions on this. But she really embodies to me this quote that I love by Toni Morrison, which is, if you have some power, then your job is to empower someone else. I like that. Yeah. And I think that is part of our responsibility, as you know, people that are pursuing higher education is to open doors for people following us. So I was really grateful that I met her. She actually was even kind enough to come to my school to teach some of the pre-med students. How to suture? She helped me with my application. She's just like an amazing person. I'm super grateful for Her. And then another Mentor that I had was a retired urologist that actually met through waiting tables. And yeah he was like one of my customers. He was there with his wife and a friend and he was celebrating his birthday and we developed a rapport. And he came to find out that I was, you know, pursuing medicine. But this was like when I just got back to finish my undergraduate degree so I hadn't even taken any science classes at this point, but I told him that I want to pursue medicine and so he tells me, you know wait till you take a science class come back to me when you take a science class. Yeah you know like you said, You have to be very honest, you know, this isn't an easy path and so he really gave me some perspective on that. And then, once he saw, I was serious about it, he was 100% supportive. I mean, he was always supportive, but he wanted to make sure that my head was in the right place, but I was doing it for the right reasons. So really grateful for him, we're still friends to this day. He and his wife are are amazing people, very philanthropic and he also helped me a lot with my application. He read my personal statement many times and helped me recognize my strength. And why I was a Really going to be a good candidate for medical school. So that's awesome. I think you brought up a good point. You know, you've reached out to your mentor and I feel like, you know, people that aren't really a people person, you know, they're more introverted introverted. Thank you. Yes, the introverted people, you know, it's kind of scary to reach out, but in my career I have found that I have grown more and it's very beneficial for you to just send an email to meet Someone at office hours so just be like, hey, I just have a quick question. Can I ask you like, but your opinion on this it is very beneficial like, for you for me, you can for you going to your professors office hours, you know. It worked out well for us in the long run. Your friend is very daunting to reaching out to someone. Maybe like sitting a cold email or making a phone call. Yeah, it can be very scary sometimes. But I think you have to remember also that both people were in the same position that you were true. So I'm selling point. So yeah, it's all going to be okay. The worst thing they can do is say no and you will find people like Christina said, who won't be so supportive. But I think that's why it's really important to just establish in yourself what you want to do and have faith in yourself. Yeah, because you're just going to meet so many obstacles. That that's the truth. If you have a good foundation and a good sense of like why you're doing it and a good reason you'll really be okay. Yeah and Christine I think you mentioned you were a mentor yourself. Did you have any feedback on what? It's like to be a mentor to a mentee for sure. Yeah so I in college. Had a group of students who were pre-health mentors. So if you had questions and wanted a students advice about anything, really pretty health-related, you could go and you can meet with students who had done that process prior to you. So I used to go to them when I was kind of in my younger years in undergrad and then I became a mentor in my later years and it was just such a great experience because I think there is no advice like firsthand advice like you need that kind of first. Hand perspective. When people come to me and ask me for my help, which I still, I think my email must be so on the Binghamton website somewhere because I still get help from students asking for my advice, those called, you know, cold emails. Even this is totally what I always say is, you know, how can I help you? Like putting the onus on that student because I don't know that students Journey or what they've already figured out or what they need help with. So I think asking and kind of putting the ball in their Court can be helpful to them because then they can really get out of it. What they need to get out of it and I talk a lot. So Creation that I that they already know. I really love hearing about your experiences with mentors. I think that's awesome. We also wanted to touch on something related to work life balance. So the medical field and Science in general is notorious for being difficult. There's many years of school for us Christina there's residency and then there are exams at every turn and I know that's the same for PhD so let's talk about the elusive work-life balance. Like what does this mean to you and you think that we could ever truly Reach a balance between work and life. I don't think so. Personally, I really don't. I think it's more along the lines of I said this amount of time to do work and I said this amount of time outside of work to do my life, be with friends, feel families and not think about work. Sometimes I think I have a balance, but then when I take a step back, I kind of look like, oh, these past few weeks, they've been, you know, focused around work. It's kind of like, you know, a wave kind of goes up and down, and up and down. And I really have to thank my fiance because he is a much more like, rounded person than me. So I'll be like, hey, you've been so focused into work lately. I think we need to go do this with family. I think we need to go do the spontaneous trip, like I think you need to get back to you and I really appreciate that because like these last few weeks for me personally have been crazy. And I realized that this week that, you know, I really do need to get back to me and focus on my friends and family and people I haven't seen And so I don't I mean I don't think there's a balance. What do you think that Ali Christina? Well let me just say that I'm not the person that should be giving advice about this. I do not. If there is a balance I have not could not figure that out yet but what I will say is a couple things I think for me I live by a few golden rules. Yes. Please tell us your golden golden walls. Here we go. Three. Golden rules number one. No matter what's going on. I always plan something to look. Forward to at the end of the week. So literally, a Natalie knows I'm talking about really text people at on Monday, Tuesday, even of a week to get plans for that weekend. Whatever it is. So that throughout the entire week, everyone's excited about something. Everyone has something social or fun, or whatever to look forward to. Even if it's like going and getting dinner with my sister on Saturdays, which I do a lot, which is just kind of a more like common everyday thing like that, I look forward to that because I love spending time with her, so that's rule. Number one. Always try to have some relaxing fun. Social thing to do at the end of the week, if you can help it number two, I always make a schedule on Sundays for that following week up until the following Sunday and I schedule with called non-negotiable time and I'm doing air quotes that is but so typically I schedule non-negotiable time for Fridays and Saturdays after 4:00 that no matter what's going on. I don't ever do work Fridays and Saturdays. At 4:00 the 23, I think for us, you know, for Our Generation like the new generation of healthcare professionals, doctors phds, nurses, everyone we get to set the tone and it's up to us, you know, when I'm relaxing. I try not to beat myself up or, you know, I think a lot of a lot of Med students that I've seen, you know, you will be relaxing or you'll be doing something social and someone will say, oh, I should be studying right now. Yeah, let me check that email real quick. Yeah, no, like it's up to us at the time. If it's relaxing time, it's relaxing. Time like don't try not to do that or for example, you know, it's up to us, are we going to ask women when they're planning on having a family? Or if they have enough time for their family, maybe we shouldn't do that anymore. Or maybe we should do that. To both genders, equally the same amount. Like, I think it's up to us set the tone, you know, if you want to have a better work-life balance. Don't make yourself apologize when you have time to relax. Yeah, kind of counterproductive in my opinion now. Yeah. You know, I think for me, The work-life balance is, you know, something to strive for, right? And I think it's easier when you feel like your work is part of your life's calling, which I feel like we all do feel and I do think it's really important to have like an identity and hobbies outside of school. I think that really helps kind of strike that balance. I don't know about you guys, but sometimes, like after an exam or during like a break, like, my brain doesn't know how to relax. Like, it doesn't like know how to have fun, like, how to not be stressed out. So it's definitely Good to have like hobbies to fall back on and have a plan, like you said, Christina. Absolutely love that. So it can be like one of the gym are going to museum, are going to see a show or something like that. I think it's good to have interests outside of science and medicine. Yeah, and also just a little plug. There's so many things going on in Syracuse like correctly. Like yeah, I was really blown away. I'm taking an elective class right now called literature and Medicine ran by dr. Ruth heart, which is an amazing woman in the community. We've seen different films, documentaries plays, we've read things before Able to haul, yeah. We've been able to connect all those things to medicine and practicing medicine in some way. So, but back to the topic day-to-day, finding a work-life balance. To me, looks like prioritizing quality sleep and nutrition. Like those are like hard and fast for me. Like I need good at least 6 hours of sleep. Definitely. Yeah, yes, there we go. Those are mine. I'll just add on yours and overall health, you know, I try to go to the gym. I try to meditate and you know what, I remember to. I also try to make sure that my space is clean. That's really important to me and like organize, it just helps my brain work better and it reminds me also that my personal life is just as important as my professional life, like it's easy to like roll out of bed and run to school and just get the library for like 12 hours. But like, if I wake up and like, I really enjoy my space, that I'm living in, it helps me slow down a little bit and kind of like find that work-life balance and realize I'm not. Just a student. You know, I'm a woman. I'm a person. You know, living a life. Yeah. Yeah. And I think tapping into your creativity is also really important. I know you're both very creative like Crusade. You sing. I do? Yeah. Yeah. And Brittany has an amazing, like aesthetically pleasing Instagram page. I love your pictures. Yeah. Like, just a little ways that we can, you know, be creative and balance are ourselves out. I like to cook, I like to make pretty things to put around my house. Um, so those are just some ways that I try to strike that balance. Balance but you know, sometimes are harder than others. I'm sure we all know. So it's also I think important to remember the big picture and anything worth doing as they say will not be easy. It is worth it. It's for a reason you know. I mean and it's you know it's going to be all right in the end. Yes investment. So yeah like this framework that we've kind of set up of like reflecting each week just making sure like we have this kind of balance like I feel like that's kind of tied between all of us is that I mean, even if it's not every week, every few weeks It's like coming back and being like, okay, have I focus too much on work or have I focused too much on my outside life? You know, going out to dinner and things like that. You know, I think a framework we've set up for balancing work and life, you know. I think it's very beneficial, hopefully, to our listeners. Yeah, definitely. I love this conversation that we had today. Like, I learned so much about you both and I hope that all of our listeners. Also got some insight into how it is to be the first person in your family. Family and how there is a beautiful Community waiting for you here. So we look forward to speaking to you next time. Yes time soon. Thanks everyone.